I think I'm done with the WAR for a while. Hopefully forever. It's because I'm a blind idiot, you see. I shield my precious ego from the slings and arrows of reality. In other words, I've got little time and no patience for a board whose only denizens I agree with I have regular contact with outside the board, and everyone else seems pretty dedicated to pointing out what a great big asshole I am. Why bother? The correct balance between "here's some reasonable arguments" and "Tozetre is an asshole" is... "here's some reasonable arguments."

Well, I figured I would offer some parting shots. I'll number them at first, 'cause I'm ordinal like that.

1a) I am a great big fucking asshole.
1b) So is Penn Gilette.
1c) We're both also right.

2a) I'm religious.
2b) So are atheists. Suprise!
2c) Believing a certain thing about God, no matter what it is, is both an act of faith and totally ridiculous. Whether it's that he made the Jews wear silly hats or that He can't possibly exist because We Say So, it doesn't make any sense whatsoever unless we're also claiming to have had a spiritual awakening.
2d) Oh, and Penn and I, both quite religious, are both also right.

3a) This one seems to get missed a lot, so I'm going to make it real clear so you feel silly about it. Politically speaking, I'm not right-wing. I'm not left-wing. I'm not even center of the road. I'm among the people who left the right-left line and stepped out into a three-dimensional political world, and I orbit the star called Liberty. Most of us self-identify as Libertarian, but we don't give a damn for political parties, either.
3b) So's Penn.

4a) This is also important but can't be summed up quite so pithily. I'm smart. I'm really, really smart. That's just how my brain chemistry and the luck of the genetic draw made me. The odds are good that I'm smarter than you. That doesn't make me right, though, and I never claimed it did.
4b) I'm educated. I'm probably better educated, in school years, than anyone else on the board. That doesn't make me right, either. But, and here's the thing, it does make me better read, and more knowledgeable about my fields of interest than you. That increases my odds of being right, at least.
4c) I think really, really hard about things. I say stuff off the cuff a lot, but when I say something it's usually because it occured to me before, and not because I'm drunk. There's the difference, you see. Nothing makes me right, but thinking about things a lot makes my chances pretty good.

4d) This means that when you spout lines like "you're just blind to the facts," I get fed up and leave. It's not because my feelings are hurt, it's because I'm not blind to the facts, and you've fallen back on insulting me as a means to win the argument. Speaking of which...

5) I like reason. Most of you don't. You like arguing, and you like rhetoric, but you can't figure out which end of a conclusion to stick the propositions on. Again, that doesn't make you wrong or me right, but it does improve my chances and decrease yours.
5b) I should probably stress this. The reason I ignore your points? It's because I took a shortcut. All of them were based on those one or two arguments I just kicked out from under you. I don't need to address them. You bring up 5, or 10, or 25 points, and I pick out two or three, because everything else follows from those. If those turn out to be false- and they are- it doesn't matter how many times you repeat the things that follow, or how many other conclusions you draw from the argument I toppled.
5c) I'm going to mention it again, since nobody ever picked up on this except the reasonable people. Your arguments suck. "Tozetre is an asshole," while true, doesn't prove anything. "A > B > C > D, D! D! D!" doesn't work if I just disproved A.

5d) RTF Logic Textbook. Get a copy of your local university's 100-level logic course, and slog through the arduous process of building a useful deductive and inductive argument. The reason you're getting so pissed off with me is that you can't argue your way out of a wet paper bag, and when you get frustrated at my ignoring your finely-honed arguments you blame it on me. Stop it. It's not doing you any favours.

6) None of the above makes me an asshole. I never made a point about my being smarter or better educated than anyone. I treated you guys as if you could be as right as I usually am- by picking apart your arguments to see what made them tick. Right now, I'm being an asshole because I'm rubbing your face in it, but I'm doing it to point out that I didn't before. None of it made me right or you wrong.

I'm right.
It's not because I've got this or that advantage.
It's because I agree with reality. That's why I dismiss your insane claims. That's why I piss you off with statements like "Well, no." Because, well, no.

Jews aren't running Hollywood and Washington.
Cops aren't trying to put all 30 million black Americans in jail.
Christians did not build a 1500-year-old network of civilizations that eventually developed nuclear power and put robots on Mars by being universally blind, stupid, helpless, murderous, bigoted idiots.
Bush did not arrange 9/11 so he could have an excuse to make war on another nation.
Oil companies do not hoard gasoline to annoy consumers.
Socialism destroys economies.
People learn how to react to other people, and to authority, when they are children. This means that yes, the family is the most important social institution and we should stop playing around with it until we're sure we know what we're doing.
The Earth is bigger and far more powerful that we are. Human interference in the environment is a cute myth but doesn't impress a summer thunderstorm.
Virgins don't care what you think of them. If they wanted your opinion about how stupid virginity is to impact their decision, they would have had sex a long time ago.

Lastly;
My measure of a human being's worth has absolutely no connection to your opinion. I know you think I'm an asshole. The people I love and deal with the most think that I am a terrific human being, and I don't pay any attention to that, either, though I appreciate it. If you dislike me, you've automatically excluded yourself from my consideration. Yes, I'm ignoring your criticism of me. It's because I've heard it before and it was bullshit back then, too. It's been bullshit for nearly three decades. I am rude, blunt, and direct. I disregard people's feelings during argument.
I've had more beautiful women try to have sex with me than, I'll wager, any of you. So no, I'm not going to die alone and bitter. I might die alone, because I've got high standards, but I'll die satisfied.

Because I do everything until I'm satisfied.

Like staying on this board until I was done with it.

Or this post.

Not sure how to respond to something like this.

Not for lack of content, nor the response to it.

Rather...will it be read?

So, instead of an insightful, blow-by-blow take on each point, I'll offer these two points:

1) Far too many people take this far too seriously

2) No. Really. You all take this far too seriously, and personally.

<shrugs>

It worries me that real life isn't so forgiving.

Besides, you can't leave. You're the Joint operations Commander in charge of Middle Earth Operations. You've got an obligation to help us slaughter orks and build a powerful Gondorian government that will last far into the future.

Sorry to hear that. But, you're right - there's nothing on this board worth an ulcer, because it's just pixels on a screen. All the less so because the pixels are carrying so much dis-information - why bother when statements of fact get met with hysteria?

Can't fault you for that. God Bless - see you elsewhere...

Bah, there's no way you can resist checking out at least the Trial by Fire and Omnimedia sections.

Fiss! Come over and use your Bokken vs. Tozetre's Kung-fu skillz to beat him back here.

Or, y'know, just for fun.

I've delivered two grandstanding forum exodus ultimatums in my online life.

Both were pointless and made me feel like a dumbass.

i don't think your an asshole Toz

true you may write long rants and certain subjects(which i skip) but your just expressing your own opinion.. nothing wrong with that since evry one is doing it

cause i only lurk and hardly post what do i know? you'll be missed i'm sure

....o.0; Weeeeeeellllllllll, no.




Lol. Wellllllllll, no.

Bye now. Seriously is it really necessary to give one of these massive rants when you leave a board?...Oh yeah I forgot that for some people, INTERNET! SERIOUS BUSINESS! Ah well, good luck in whatever you do instead and all that.

What, again?

It gets old the fourth of fifth time out.

I don't know you very well......at all, actually. So my opinion of you has been entierly and unequivocally neutral.

But I have the feeling that I've read this all before. Oh, right. Because I have.

And it's getting old. Can't you leave quietly?


Whatever, see you in a few months.

Fixed.

Truer words were never typed...

Then, so long, good ridance, and fuck you too. You've been an insulting, dismissive jerk the entire time. I'm ashamed of myself for having hoped that you weren't as big an ass as you turned out to be. I took you're arrogance when I was writing for the PSDF and I took your insulting attitude on the W.A.R. but I still don't see how people can tolerate you in person.

So, you may be a nice guy, and you might have good points, but I've seen very little to prove that. All you've done is mouth off like a jerk and expect people to agree with you and like you because a few people do. A few people do.

So, while there are people nicer then me, I as one of the people that only get to see what a dipshit you are on the W.A.R. would like to say don't let the door hit you on the way out.

holy shit... sorry to see you go Toz

Hey Drax, why'd you waste your time writing a post he's not even here to read? If he hasn't responded to the rest of us by now, he's not here.

Like I said, grandstanding forum exodus ultimatums are pointless. Why bother if you can't even have the satisfaction of seeing the reactions?

Reminds me of a line from Scrubs: "I really want to see if that one landed, but first I'll have to go back to my sad face."

Like Cobra-kun said, this is the fourth or fifth time he's stormed off in a huff. He'll be back. He has a pathological need to tell people what he thinks is right. To prove to everyone that he's smarter, as he's determined in his own mind. He needs that affirmation. He may not think he is the center of the world, but he sure wants to be.

He even denies being wrong. He'll argue with you until he gets frustrated that he can't just win and then ignore you, like a kid plugging his ears and going "La, la, la, I can't hear you." Notice it's always everyone else is wrong. It can never be that everyone else might have a point and he could be blind to the facts or his twisted reason could have be tainted, heavy on the taint, by his own biases. Because in his mind if he surrenders even an inch to the other person, that would prove he's wrong and that just can't happen.

Tozetre O'Reilly will be back. It's just a matter of time. When he does I want him to know I feel about his need to vindicate himself by spouting how right he is before he ran away because i know when most of you read that little hissy-fit of his, you thought the same damn thing.
"Again?"
"He's right? When? Not about the enviroment, that's for sure."
"Who gives a fuck if you haven't fucked? That had nothing to do with you not wanting gays to marry. And that sure doesn't give you authority over family values."
"Libertarian? Walking in goosestep with the right-wingers? How cute!"

He'll come back and look for this thread, just to see how people replied to his dismissive good-bye just to read the "Sorry to see you go"s so he'll go "Alright, I'll come back but I won't be happy about it."

And he'll read my reply and remember why he left in the first place. And then, hopefully, he'll stay gone.

You know, the posting rules say that you must be civil t oothers on the board. Since Tozetre has officially left, that would technically imply that such rules no longer protect him.

I did Tozetre's mom.

Fixed for the tl;dr people. Dark endorses this statement.

Anon, etc: Remember, the "Don't Be a Fucking Moron" rules are still in effect.

Anyway...

Draxel's response was directly against what Tozetre posted, and thus, I'm keeping it up for nice big "you can't just insult everyone on your way out and still believe you can return without having to deal with your past idiocy" reminder.

While I agree with Mr. Bethlehem's POV, I usually don't concern myself to this point of getting pissed off, mainly because it's only under severe distress that I'll give that much of a shit. But this has been going on for a while, and I'm keeping it up as the afore mentioned reminder that walking away with a big "I'm always right, fuck you all" isn't exactly the model of reason, intelligence and maturity I'm certain it means to those posting it.

Tozetre, your input is awesome when it's INPUT, and not just PUT-IN. Welcome back in advance, blah blah blah. But you're wrong. You are wrong about a great deal many things, and until you realize that being wrong is actually pretty normal once in a while, and a perfectly acceptable humanity-qualifying property, I fear you'll be error-phobic. And this will continue to poison your internet arguments to the level of pissing off everyone around you and negating any and all enjoyment / usefulness of your statements.

It isn't even a point of what you believe in anymore, and it's very sad that you don't even realize this. It's the fact that you're willing to erase all meaningful opposition and possibility in your mind and blind yourself to new possibilities and the ideas of others who CAN challenge you and make you grow as an intellectual and as a human being. Instead of growth, you're so desperate to be right that you'll attach EVERYTHING to your core, unshakable ideals. Nobody is challenging them, but you MAKE every fight a challenge to them, and thus, somehow obtain a reason to take personal offense instead of personal interest.

The fact that I'm usually smart enough to know when I've run into a brick wall doesn't mean I believe anyone is right, and I know I'm a stubborn bastard myself when it comes to ideas and things that I feel strongly about. But NEVER will I start bitching and insulting people because I feel the argument isn't going my way. NEVER will I take an argument...especially with good friends...so far that I can't take a step back, a few deep breaths and be cool with whatever is said next. And NEVER would I collectively compare the people I have had the unparalleled honor and privilege in discussing life's interesting tidbits, major questions, and hilarious events with a resource to be used until I was ready to discard them for the sake of convenience.

You should be honored you have had so many people put up with your regularly insulting, (don't believe swears and mother references be needed for your comments to be insulting and degrading), block-headed arguments. Your every attempt to turn a simple discussion into a holy war or major political thesis is not something that attracts a mentality outside of pissed-off 4 th grade emo-kids these days. More-so, you should use all that mighty intelligence you claim to have, and start learning from events like this instead of just getting frustrated for a few months - until, of course, you can somehow craft an internal justification believable enough to stroke your ego and launch a final round of thinly veiled insults at the world that you claim to understand so well. Just for the hell of it, I figure. Not even for any real reason.

I don't need to jerk-off my argument cock to feel satisfied with myself, my life and the things I do. What I share with the users of the WAR and far beyond is more than enough. Just being here, I find satisfaction. By engaging in conversations I am interested in, I know I'm right, even if the content ends up not being so clearly won. Every pause I need to take to consider my own argument...or someone else's...that's a major victory for me and all involved. To quote your very e-mail tag, Tozetre, the act of participating in discussions is what allows my mind to open...and what it closes on is not "winning" but the value and gains I receive in the form of growth, insight, and camaraderie with the people who have offered to share their time with me and lend an ear/mind/voice when I need one. What my open mind closes on, like the open mouth closing on something solid, is not the act of arguing for the sake of argument, nor the tiny pleasures of stating my opinion without rebuttal. It is the self-insight I gain by accepting another person's opinion, and the wisdom I collect about the world in the process.

The fact that satisfaction seems along side the core reasons for this sudden exodus disturbs me greatly, and I hope realization on the matter is the first thing that changes if you decide to post again. Otherwise, I doubt you will ever honestly be satisfied, and every chance for something beyond a war of badly phrased logic and wills will be lost to the endless flotsam that is Forum Discussion.

Hope that makes sense. And if not, well, we can discuss it later.