And there is a silver lining on that cloud if you read the last paragraph.

Not to bitch too loudly...

But the Union is why I can't get a raise for actually doing GOOD work.

Still, I guess every 6 months having a raise is nice. Too bad most companies do that ANYWAY.

Amen to that, Fissy.

I work as a part-time janitor at my college residence hall, and the Union for the fulltimers seems to be just an excuse to do as little actual work as possible and complain about what they have to do besides. If they could actually get fired (which they can't, the bastards) they might actually do a good job of keeping our bathrooms clean and our hallways free of dirt and mud (which, while admittedly a crappy job, is still what they get paid to do) instead of slacking off six out of eight hours and only making a half-hearted attempt the other two. And then they have the nerve to complain when us part-timers--who make a third of what they do and only have two hours to do our jobs--don't get something done because there aren't enough of us to go around.

Yeah, collective bargaining is nice for leverage against evil companies, and it can net you perks like healthcare and such, but when it becomes an excuse for employees to slough off then there's a need for change. Not everyone is a heartless bastard only in it for the dollar.

First, you do get raises. So what exactly are you bitching about? Second, the reason why most unions push for semi-annual raises is that companies used to give employees spuriously poor reviews to keep their wages down. Finally, most companies give semi-annual wages not out of the goodness of their hearts, but because unions fought tooth and nail to make them. Thus companies give semi-annual raise because of unions, not despite them.


First, all companies are inherently "evil." I use scare quotes because concepts like good and evil are useless outside of an absolute moral system; in reality good and evil are frivolous terms. All companies are for-profit institues. The are required by law to produce the greatest amount of profit for their owners as possible. They act in disregard to society, the enviroment, and everything else except profit. This is where ethe phrase "The Almighty Dollar" arose from. The only thing keeping companies in check are there employees acting collectively to counter-act the natural inclination of companies to blindly chase profit. We call these groups "unions."

As for whether or not the janitors are slacking off, you yourself admit to being only pat-time. In fact you stated you only work two hours a day. I would surmise this means that the full-time janitors, who would work eight hour shifts, were thus out of your purview for around six hours each day. How do you know they are slacking off during the hours you are not working? Furthermore, you stated that your crew of part-time janitors have problems completing your tasks in time simply due to the workload. Could it be that the full-time employees suffer similar workloads and are merely fighting a loosing battle to keep the place clean against the natural forces of enotropy and the denizens of the building? Perhaps the unionized employees are working just as hard as you.

He's bitching about no raise for GOOD work. IOW, the downside from "protecting" employees from spuriously poor reviews is that it also "protects" them from non-spurious good reviews - and the incentives for good work that go with good reviews. If I get no more benefit from busting my butt than the office jerk does from sitting ON his butt, why bother busting it?

It rewards mediocrity through setting the point of diminishing returns at the bare minimum to get by - no room for excellence, because, in my personal experience of three different labor unions over 20 years , the hard-chargers ALWAYS got voted down by the mediocrities at contract ratification. The bosses of the UFCW are thinking the same way as the bosses of Wally-World, just in the opposite direction. Their prime motivation is to keep their members/shareholders happy. So, we see that your union honchos are just as "evil" (to borrow your term - more accurate would be, "amoral") as your managers.

And, think it through. If you're a full-time janitor, and you've got protections stronger than academic tenure, and you've got bright, eager, young part-timers, why NOT shove most of the grunt work on them. Same dynamic I experienced during my brief stint in the grocery store stockroom. Us part-timers paid UFCW dues at the same rate, but didn't get the contractual protections the full-timers did. Guess who was going to lose a confrontation - it's very easy to rig a setup, and how hard is the shop steward going to fight for the kid who made so much trouble at the last meeting?

I did a full-time stint over the summer for some extra cash to cover my last year of tuition, so at least over the summer they're lazy as hell. Our fulltimer disappeared for three hours following lunch every day when he was supposed to be at least keeping an eye on us, even if he wasn't actively helping. Which he only did rarely.

Like Doyle said, they figure we don't have contracts, so they can dump it all on us, despite the fact that we don't have the time or manpower to keep up. And seeing as I've done, at one point or another, every single job they have to do (clean the bathrooms, clean the student lounges, sweep/mop the stairs, and empty the trash) and could complete all those tasks to an acceptable level in five or six hours while working at a very relaxed pace, I don't see why it should take them longer. For crying out loud, they take an hour to clean a bathroom I can finish off in twenty minutes, and I used the same training manual they do! And yet, most days they don't finish the jobs, or do them so poorly the students complain.

Last year when I lived in the dorms it was a nightmare. We often had to restock the toilet paper and paper towels ourselves, half the soap dispensers in one bathroom didn't work for months, and the days things were cleanest were on the weekends, when us student janitors came in to do the bathrooms because the fulltimers only work weekdays. Then the fulltimers have the nerve to complain about us not cleaning up a mess in a lounge that was made SUNDAY NIGHT! We do the cleaning in the MORNING, just like they do! Argh, it's so frustrating!

Oh, and did I mention that there's been a freeze on student raises for the past six years? We only got one this year because Michigan raised minimum wage, and since the full time staff also got similar (though lesser) raises due to their contract, the school can't afford to pay for as many students as we had last year, so we can't hire any more people to cover the work we don't get done. But hey, if we worked two more hour a day, we could join the union! And then we could have our hard-earned money leeched away in union dues, because we sure as hell wouldn't get paid any better, but at least we wouldn't get fired for not doing what we get paid to do.

Exactly right. I like the fact that my company gives me raises, but this is something even "evil" corporations have to do to ensure a lower rate of employee churn, and thus save money on training and downtime. It's NOT something the union negotiated, and in fact, their scope is so limited that I'll be at the top of my pay-scale sometimes next year. After that, it doesn't matter how awesome I do...because the company is limited in the amount they can pay me by the union. Fun, huh?

My big complaint is that my pay is dependant on a set rate of increase that people who jerk off at work will get by doing nothing but prevent themselves from being fired...versus giving me a chance to actually do extraordinary and get paid for it. I don't mind the "every 6 month you get a raise thing" but the fact that, even if I wow the CEO, he wouldn't be able to say "Wow, Chris, here's a bonus" unless he first made me Managment....and even that has some union restrictions.

Most of the complaints I've seen can be fielded by the Canadian Worker's board, and do not need a union to add another layer of red-tape and layers to the paperwork. The government does enough of that.

Most modern unions are just as bad as the businesses they are supposed to protect workers from. I say most, naturally, not meaning all, as there are plenty of high-risk industry and environmental issues. However, a lot of "white-collar" unions simply exist for the sake of their own growth or combination into another, more powerful (read: more dues collected) union, and/or generate income via insurance and other services by being able to under-cut other companies due to their intimate knowledge with their target clientelle.

I'm NOT saying unions can't be good for a workforce. Especially when that work force is severely mistreated. But in a healthy office environment, you see a lot more "We can't fire them...they're Union" VS "Wow, the Union really saved me from that evil boss!"

Of course...I'm quite biased after the strike at my company. But even long-term union supporters began saying "WTF????" and basically agree that they got the short end of the stick...right up the butt with no lube.

Well, at least they didn't cross a picket line. So they're not hypocrites, at least.