When my friend Brian (known in W.A.R. circles as 'That Guy') and I used to hang out, our time was usually spent ordering pizza, watching movies, and playing video games that involved blowing things up. However, every now and then he and I would plot stuff. They'd rang from get rich quick schemes to plans about what we would do if we ran an organization like the U.S. Government, a mega-corporation, or Cobra (cause G.I. Joe is a bunch of pussies).

Then I wrote a scene in reaction to the 2004 tsunami where I tried to think of what the Duke of New York from the Omoi stories would do to offer aid to those hit by that disaster and when I cooked up the plan for what he would do, I realized that there was many ways that same plan could be applied to everything from depressed inner city areas to third world nations.

As I thought more about it, I also began to remember the old ideas Brian and I had to change the world and saw those same ideas could fit with this plan and improve it.

Now, I ran the whole plan by Fiss, Brian, and my girl Sandy already and all three just basically nodded and agreed it could work. The only objection I've heard was from Fiss who said I'd have to make sure to get a few lawyers and accountants in out it early to make sure it's all on the up and up.

However, I'm hesitant to throw the idea out there for all to see since someone could fuck it up but I see no harm in running a rough outline past you guys to fish for ideas.

So, basically, it involves creating a corporation/charity organisation that's idealogical goal is improvement and service to a limited geographical area (a city, region, or state depending on population). To do this, they own several small companies; real estate, construction, security, employment/temp agency and investment firms.

The real key would be the employment for those companies and their benefits package which would include the hiring contract that a person could work for the Corp/Charity's small companies for a set period of time and in exhange the Corp/Char would provide financial assistant for either school or if the employee wants to start their own business. Employees could even return and work for another set period of time so that they could go to their school after their first "tour" is up and then start a business after their second.

After the business the employee is up and on it's feet, the new business owner could either take 100% control or they could keep the Corp/Charity as a minority share holer/silent partner/whatever you want to call it and the Corp/Charity could take maybe something like 10% of profits in exchange for discount service and products from other businesses who keep them on.

So if a small restraunt, a dry cleaners, and a tax accountant are al contribute and the Corp/Charity then helps a kid go through law school and then set up his own law firm, that fresh young lawyer has a client list to offer his services to in those other three businesses as well a discount should he need to have buiness dinners at the restraunt, his suits sent to the cleaners and a tax accountant to make sure his taxes are paid.

The Corp/Charity then takes the revenue from those businesses to reinvest in the community in any number of ways; build schools, fund research or cultural events, or anything you can think of. However, if their security firm works as a francise private military company that offers services from bank and real estate protection were to contribute a few cargo helicopters, and the Corp/Charity could provide supplies and finances, when disasters such as the tsunami, Hurricane Katrina, or the tornadoes that just hit in Kansas happen, they could fly addition aid anywhere in the world, whether FEMA and other such organisations are functioning properly or not.

The Corp/Charity's idealogy would have to be one of service, reason, and compassion. They would have to dedicate themselves more with solving problems for the people in their area over setting political policies and executive stock benefits. Those who would work for the core Corp/Charity group (as opposed to the smaller business that basically fund it) could work with the local government to improve the community.

Each employee of the Corp/Char core group would be dedicated to the ideaology, but recieve a smaller pay but be compinsated in housing and other resources which shouldn't be a problem if the idealogy is based on service instead of consumerism. If you also offered a tough training program you could ensure that the most determined got in but also that they are prepared for any situation that they must face.

Then, take one person or group who has worked for the Corp/Char group and have them leave and go to a different area to set up a group like that in another city or area, totally independent from the original group, working for the same ideals but serving the new community they set themselves up in but they can still work with them on projects to help anyone they can.

So, that's the rough idea. I probably left out some stuff but there ya go.
But, it would be good to hear ideas on how the Corp/Char idea could work better, what might have to be in an idealogy that would work, and any other ideas that might work.

Holy crap, thats brilliant...

Its like... how communism was suppose to work, but BETTER... on so many levels...

If you actually do this little, let me know, I will gladly hop on board for it.

Wow. Thank you Nekochan.

I'd like to think of it more as a middle ground between communism and a capitalism but I'll drop you a line if I manage to get it started.

Any other thoughts? Ideas? Dumb lymrics?

I have.... damn, I got nothing... still too asleep (been up a total of 15mins)

Cupcake?

I too am in for this, Canada does truly need a swift kick to the sweet meats and be re-organized into a better working environment. If the Duke of New York requires it, then the Demon of Calgary offers his services.

Fuck that. Use micro-loans. Capitalism will fix the area itself. Plus, it's already been proven effective.

Micro-loans do allow people in developing countries to get money to either get by or to pull themselves out of poverty. They were used in the Marshall Plan but they were only part of the over all reconstruction of Europe but not without critism at the time and their use now in South Asia is still just getting started and real research into how effective has not been implimented yet so it makes it hard to trust whether most of the rave reviews about it are true actual accounts or sales hype. We haven't gotten feed back on how many reaccuring loans are taking place, whether their helping all people or just being targeted at certain groups, or how dependent on those loans people are becoming over turning those loans into means by which they can increase their own revenue. There have already been charges from officals in Bangladesh that the loan companies are charging excessive interest rates.

Another problem is that they're primarily being used in developing countries where there's limited resources for oversite or corruption that can lead companies to become more predatory, one of the leading reasons economists believe that subprime lenders had a meltdown here in the states late last year. If such a collapse happened due to recklessness on the part of the microlenders, it could drive a developing country down into the mud.

Not only that but what do micro-loans do for the impoverished in industrial nations? Subprime lenders didn't make the world a better place and the small scale of microlenders wouldn't do much for them except pay their rent for a month. In many case, those small time loans, from those pay day loan places and pawn brokers, don't encourage stability for people but dependency.

Another problem arises when governments begin relying on them more as a cure all means of dealing with poverty and cut back on things like public health, welfare, and education spending, which is a concern that has already arisen.

Micro-loans are a great tool but is not an all purpose solution to any situation.

As for capitalism fixing everything, just blindingly trusting a social philosphy to solve things is the thing we picked on Tozetre about when he said people would find a technological solution for global warming or Bush about when he deregulated all the public services in Iraq and crossed his fingers, hoping the free market economy would bring big corporations into to rebuild the country.

This whole thing isn't about political or social philosphies or an idea of how people or the world should be run. It's about how can people apply themselves in constructive ways to bring about a tangiable improvement to the world around them. It's an option besides just working a nine-to-five and being told you should only worry about yourself and keeping up with the Joneses.

Besides, capitalism isn't a sure-fire, all-purpose solution. It was never meant to be. It's a way of doing business and managing economics. People have tried to apply it as panacea for society's ills and found it could make things worse. When countries deregulate their utilities in exchange for loans from the World Bank, it's driven prices up in those countries, made basic neseccities hard to get, and driven the local government into debt causing massive inflation.

How has capitalism proven so effective when people still slipped through the cracks?

I'm not saying capitalism is bad. It's just not the pack mule for the problems of the world. We need to step up and take responsibility for ourselves and each other. We should use capitalism as a tool to help society, not a system to dump on people a trust that it'll solve everything.

When I talked about helping people setting up a business, I didn't mean just with money. I'd want to start the business with him and then gradually hand over control of the business to him as he learns to manage it successfully without making it the win-or-be-destroyed option that most small business get dealt. Most small businesses don't even survive five years but with this process it'd hopefully increase the chance that this small business owner would. I don't want to just give him a fish. I want to teach him how.

I'd want real estate to be apart of it so that if a family pulls up in front of my office after living in their car for the last month since they lost their jobs, I'd have a house or apartment set aside for them, whether it's waiting to be sold at the time or being renoevated and then have the means to get them employeed through one of the companies the Corp/Char runs. Hell, if the job takes, I'd want to see if he'd like to buy the freaking house.

I'd want to have an apartment building set up like a barracks or a dorm so that kids who are either runaways or juvenilles on probation could have a place to go, get a job working in one of the companies the Corp/Char runs, and get away from whatever shitty living situation drove them to that without only having gangs and cardboard boxes as an alternative.

I'd want to be able to have the cash and resources to pick up on public works projects that are badly needed by the community when the local government can't take care of them and then write what I can as a tax deduction as a tax deduction.

I'd want the security force to do more then guard banks. I'd want them to have a hiring preference to vets and ex-cops (and good training for those who aren't) so that if there's a hurricane, riot, alien invasion, there'd be an extra man force to aid the cops and national guard in times of crisis.

It's not supposed to be just about making money and businesses. It's supposed to be a concentrated effort to invest in a community and take active responsibility for it, not for profit but beause through that service we can slowly make the work a better place, not having to rely on a government's empty promises.

It'll take hard work, determination, and sacrifice and it's not for everyone, but I would think it would be worth it for those who did choose to do so because they could go through their lives saying they built something, they helped someone, and they served a purpose to themselves and others rather then just collectively looked out for themselves.

Now I am WAY convinced of this plan... If I had money, I would donate it to help you start this little venture...

Granted, and I seriously dont want to pop your bubble, not EVERYONE wants to be a productive member of society, most of them just want to mouch off the government until they die of old age, or drug abuse....

The people that would actually benefit from this sort of thing are sadly, very few people in the world...

Dont that suck?

I'm only half-way there... I want to do as little as possible and get paid a butt-load for it... Tech Support jobs here I come!

True. But if you can help those who want it, why not? Besides, maybe you'd set an example for others. That's gotta be better then the "Let's shove a better world down their throats" attitude some people have.

No. Micro-loans in Africa and South Asia have pulled MILLIONS out of poverty. It works. I'm not blindly believing in anything. It has been shown repeatedly to work. The 2006 Nobel Peace Prize was given to the originator of the idea. I have no clue where you came up with a WWII reference from.

There's no need to reinvent the wheel. I'm a Socialist, a libertarian, and overall a rationalist. If micro-loans consistently raise the quality of life in an area, then it works. The theory behind it is rather straight forward: when projected through phase space, money acts as it's own strange attractor leading to a localized massing. That is to say, it takes money to make money. On the small scale, Capitalism is superbly effective. It's only on the scale of industry and big business that it stops being sound theory. Thus my being a Socialist; Capitalism with training wheels if you would. 95% of loan recipients repay their loans. That means you get more bang for your buck than with any other system. Why try some untested theory when we have a wonderful example of how to accomplish the same thing quickly and efficiently?

You know, I tried to think of a nice, polite way of responding to your post but somehow everytime I read it, it brought out the condesending asshole in me cause it was like you just weren't listening. So, here we go.



Super. I'd love to see the rearch. However, I didn't say they didn't work, I said you shouldn't rely on them as a panacea to cure all of societies ills.



Good for him. But I don't care if he won the first prize at the county jubilee for it. Again, not arguing that it can't be an effective tool. However, you didn't address any of my concerns regarding following your advice and trusting in micro-loans versus doing my own thing. .

Oh, and the Marshall Plan reference came from the same Wikipedia page you referenced. You should read the whole thing. It's got a funny section called 'Criticism' I found hilarious.



Hate to break it to you, but there's always a need to reinvent the wheel, the lightbulb, the light switch, mousetraps, and even cheese, because there's always new ways of doing things that could work. That's what those Nobel Prizes are all about. But you never know unless you try.



Great, but information not pertinent to this conversation or your argument unless you want to make this popularity contest, in which case I'd win. I'm cuter.



Indeed it does. But just like how one drugs doesn't work on all diseases, micro-loans aren't likely to cure all societies ills. I'm talking about how to finance a group of people who could come together to help people on a local level, without too much political hassle I would hope and without putting people into debt and you're talking about financing.



So, I stand on one side of a bank and I toss a quarter to my buddy on the otherside of the bank, we could clean out the vault?

Quick note; if this is your attempt to be funny or witty, you failed. If this is you trying to sound all smart and intellgent by talking like those people you watch on Start Trek every night in hopes of seeing Troi's nipples poking through her jumpsuit, you failed again. If this is you trying to sound more like a pompous ass then I am, ain't going to happen Dorothy, because I'm the King Bastard around here and no one's better then me at being a smart ass then me. You just come off like a dumbass



Really? Boy, you must be a freaking economics major.

Your ability to sound stupid in this argument is not boosting my faith in micro-loans.



Again, nothing selling me on this micro-loan idea and why I should trust it to cure the world's ills.



Wow! More stuff about you I don't care about and doesn't support your argument! You know, we can talk about you if you'd like instead.



See, now you sound like an informercial. And I'd like to point out that you're comparing statistics without a source that could apply to Boise, Idaho and not South Asia and Africa where micro-loans are being dealt out. And that's doesn't mean I shouldn't try my plan either because profit is profit and I'd rather see profit in my hands, hands that have a willingness to use that money to help people then in the hands of loan companies to go on expensive vacations and give out executive benefits package that help no one.



Wait, here's a better idea. Why not? Why the hell shouldn't I try something new? Why shouldn't I try to help people more then a bank can by handing out high interest loans? Why shouldn't I invest in small businesses so I can hopefully become minority owner of them while still investing in real estate and garnering profits from other companies and then taking that cash and using to improve the world around me and then showing other people how they can do the same thing?

And if you're right, why the fuck should charity organizations stay open? They can just use micro-loans.

Why shouldn't I want to make the world a better place? Because someone says they already have a better way? Gee golly willikers, Batman, I've heard that before from the marxists, communists, theologians, fascists, capitalists, free market capitalists, Democrats, Republicans, fasict anarchists, and the Boy Scouts and I still see room for improvement.

As for being quicker and more efficient, says who? First off, I'm talking about a rough idea regarding a multiple service organisation that can help lots of people, give them jobs, provide a boost to the local economy, encourage community spirit and cooperation, and a whole laundry list of possibilities that come with just thinking of what you could do with it and, and you're talking about throwing money at them.

Mine's about setting up solid lines of income for an organization that wants to help the community and helping businesses come together to boost business. You're talking about just loaning money.

I'm talking about actually actively working to helping the lowest of the economic system to establish a home, find a job, get educations, or whatever they want out of life all without putting them into debt and finding a way to manage to make a profit at the same time, and you're talking about financing.

Why not do micro-loans for people who don't want to actively work for my group and still do all the other stuff I mentioned? Wouldn't that be even more effecient? I could have the cake and the icecream and still give you the finger.

As for quick, that's not always good. Microwave dinner's suck, 30 minute photo developers sometimes lose your photos, and throwing money at a problem doesn't teach people how to solve it. With the money coming in from the enterprises I mentioned I could probably have free seminars on everything from self-finances to self-defence. Maybe not as quick but I'd take that over micro-loans as our superman anyday.

First, I demand proof of said cuteness before I pass judgment...

Second, BURN X a BAZILLION on Anon...

Third, Anon, as far as I can tell, yes you are being an asshole, and seem to want to have the last word in EVERYTHING... Its an IDEA, not a way of life, or the basis of anything, just an IDEA, and the IDEA makes a lot of sense to me... But then again, I know next to nothing about forms of government... but I dont consider that (Drax's idea) a form of government, more like a plan to make the world a better place... Which I am very much for...

Stop being a whiny butt and trying to one-up people...

Drax, I pass judgement, you win the popularity contest... I like you better. ^-^ I still demand proof of said cuteness though..