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 Catholicism...WTF? 
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Post Catholicism...WTF?
New Pope's doctrines similar to Islamic extremists

Pope condems other Churches. Other churches try to lessen the impact.

Pope authorizes long-defunct version of the Latin Mass including anti-Jewish wording to many masses

Revising the Second Vatican Council...and erasing 40+ years of progress.

-Love thy Enemies? Why? When we can condem them and pitty them?
-Spread the Word? Why? When we can turn it into a Members Only privilage and use non-current language to further alienate the people?
-Glorify Christ? Why? When we can fill our own pews with all the Glory?
-Bring Man out of the Darkness? Why? When regression is SOOO much easier, and permitted under the banner of "roots" and "fundamental truth"?

Nothing makes me happier than to have Pope Sidious declare my church NOT part of his 'Church'. God...I know you can read this...I love you, but your fanclubs are fucking terrifying sometimes....

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Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:47 am
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To be fair, Tozetre has elsewhere posted a rebuttal to one of those points, based on my own 'wtf' reaction to the "Catholic Church or GTFO" comments. I hope he won't mind my reposting, though it only addresses that one point directly:

Quote:
As usual, news media is far more concerned with excitement than accuracy and as a result spreads outright falsehoods. According to Reuters (and no doubt in short order the rest of the major news services), the Pope just said all non-Roman Catholic churches are not churches.

The document in question can be found on the Vatican website, in particular right here. Copypasta'd from my comments on someone else's blog;

I suspect, given Benedict's efforts to build toward Christian unity, that this is an internal, rather than an external, effort at correction.
*reads over the document in question*
Hm.
Very much sounds internal. I see a point of clarification that's been a point of contention for centuries, here, about the meaning of the "one church." Catholics say it's the Roman Catholic church, Protestants/Evangelicals say it's the body of all true believers (i.e. the small-c catholic, i.e. universal, church).

Hah. Of particular note, which the news ignored;

we believe they suffer from defects, are deprived neither of significance nor importance in the mystery of salvation. In fact the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as instruments of salvation, whose value derives from that fullness of grace and of truth which has been entrusted to the Catholic Church

Emphasis mine. They seem to attribute Protestant salvation to grace coming through the RC church, or at least through grace that's been "entrusted to it," but that gives it a much different meaning that Reuters offers.

The very end clarifies the point, which seems awfully to be about the use and meaning of "church" as defined by the Vatican. They avoid the use of the word "church" because of theological terminology withing the RC church, including apostolic succession and the subsequent sacrament of the Eucharist, etc. They don't deny salvation or any such thing, just identification as large-C "Catholic" churches.

A point on which, I think, most Protestants/Evangelicals would agree. Our disagreement is on the value of apostolic succession and sacraments. Bloody MSM, spreading lies and slander on every topic they get their hands on. I don't even watch them any more and I still end up cleaning up the mess they cause.

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Fri Jul 13, 2007 1:50 am
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I know. I read his comments, and they're just happily glazing over the core language, calling the reporting false because it simplifies the phrases.

They seem to attribute Protestant salvation to grace coming through the RC church, or at least through grace that's been "entrusted to it," but that gives it a much different meaning that Reuters offers.

So, instead of saying that all other churches are not churches, the Pope has declared that IF any churches ARE able to save ANYONE, it's only beause of the influence given to them by the Roman Catholic Church.

In other words:

"Non Roman Catholic Churches aren't Churches" turns into> "Non Roman Catholic Churches can use the powers of the Roman Catholic Church, but that's about it"

The controversy isn't in some sudden "Oh shit, all other churches must be leveled to the ground or the Pope is goinna be pissed!" kind of reaction. It's the fact that he has ERASED 50 years of open dialoge. Something he has repeatedly done since becoming Pope, and something he has repeatedly tried to do before becoming pope. Of course the other churches are toning it down. They want to be calm and try to explain the damages instead of making people frightened that suddenly their faith means nothing. That's not what the articles are saying, though I admit, it's easy to get that vibe from the Media. I don't care what words the media uses. I'm looking at the Vatican's actions and statements.

Still, it's funny how it's these so-called "non" churches that are sticking up for the Vatican while it pisses off half the world...

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Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:00 am
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Speaking as a recovered Catholic, the pope's sentiments are not unpopular in the church. There are many people who want the exclusivity Latin masses imply. (As a side note, as a child I once went to a church that still did the full Latin mass. It was interesting in a creepy sort of way.) He was elected pope specifically because the cardinals knew Ratzinger would undo Vatican-2. Ever since Vatican-2 the church has suffered in attendence. Mostly this was because it turned Catholicism into just another protestant church. Frankly it suprised me that anyone was surprised by this. Dude was literally a fucking Nazi; you expect him not to institute old, authoritarian policies? Expect more of the same for the forseeable future.

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Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:00 am
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