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 One War under God - now with 90% more Rapture! 
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Chibi-Czar
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The only way you'll get him to come is if you tell him I'm arguing in favor of strict Calvinism.

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A file that big?
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Wed Oct 10, 2007 9:48 pm
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Chibi-Czar
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Are you?

:twisted:

You could you know. Just to play the part. Might get him active here again.

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

You know you want to...


:twisted:

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Wed Oct 10, 2007 10:28 pm
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Chibi-Czar
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I think by now Toztere's realized that trying to talk reason to people who've already made up their mind is like banging your head against an unmoveable wall.

As an aside, I gotta say that SC's interpretation of Christianity is pretty unique, and utterly different from that of most actual Christains.

Strange, that.

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Wed Oct 10, 2007 11:28 pm
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Chibi-Czar
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admiraltigerclaw wrote:
Are you?


With the exception that I claim God doesn't exist, yes. I've essentially been using Calvinist readings of scripture in my arguments against a benevolent god.

-B- wrote:
I think by now Toztere's realized that trying to talk reason to people who've already made up their mind is like banging your head against an unmoveable wall.


Two points:
1. It is not reasonable to make an assumption without evidence. In fact, that's pretty much the opposite of reason. Thus, any argument involving faith cannot be called "reasonable," in the strict meaning of the word.
2. Most people don't change their opinions based on reason and evidence. They base them on assumptions and experience. Thus you rarely can get anyone to change their beliefs with words alone.

-B- wrote:
As an aside, I gotta say that SC's interpretation of Christianity is pretty unique, and utterly different from that of most actual Christains.

Strange, that.


My interpretation of Christianity is that it is incorrect. My interpretation of Christian scripture is that of Calvinism. That is an interpretation of scripture I share with a good deal of Christians. Like Baptist, actual Calvinists, Armenianists, and, more historically, Puritans.

My interpretation of scripture differs from believers who have embraced Enlightenment Age ideals and attempted to reconcile those ideals with their religion.

I suggest you read Tom Paine's "The Rights of Man," Kant's "A Critique of Pure Reason," and Calvin's "Institutes of The Christian Religion," and get back to me.

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"Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step to true panic."
--Freefall

A file that big?
It might be very useful.
But now it is gone.
-- David J. Liszewski


Thu Oct 11, 2007 12:56 am
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<chuckles> Just got a AIM from Toze, he says's he's not joining in, so all you hoping for a nuclear royal rumble can forget about it. ^_^

Anyone wanting the quick-fix of Calvinism can read it on Ye Olde Wiki. Core rules are essentially the same: as Anony-mouse has pointed out, it takes a more "God has either mercifully saved you or condemned you since before you were born" attitude. Again, this isn't something I agree with...but the end result is the same as my POV's "God has set the stage to help those who want it".

I suppose a great deal of the debate would be to question the timelessness VS mortal time points of views. Makes it easier to try and imagine the attitude of God...if such a thing is possible. :P

Funny thing is, though, Anon, is that even Calvinism generally states it is God's mercy and forgiveness, ie benevolence to an unworthy people, not a cruel sadistic streak that is saving people. But then again, I may just be reading the abridged version and not getting into the meat and potatoes, so I'll just stop there until I have a chance to read more.

<bows> Thanks for the infos!

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Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:46 pm
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Chibi
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Post Re: One War under God - now with 90% more Rapture!
Although this is apparently long done and forgotten, for matters of my concience and perhaps even my pride i'll throw in my thoughts.

I dont subscribe to any religion, but that said im not against them. Im an agnostic. I acknowledge that "The Church" (which can be whichever you wish to choose from) has done some increadible things, both uplifting and inspiring as well as deplorable and disgusting. But with this i agree with Fiss, thats man's folly, not that of any greater deity.
I believe in Sin just as i believe in Virtue and this belief guides my actions as i try to be the most 'virtuous' person i can be.

Im not sure i believe in any greater deity, but in some ways i do feel what Fiss describes as that unfillable hole. Instead i try to fill that by trying to be the best person I can be. I have no answer or method for 'the search for meaning,' instead i try to be the nicest, most helpful and 'good' person i can be and if there is in fact a realm after death to which my immortal soul will travel that whichever deific entity rules it will recognise that i have tried to do right etc etc. If not, then at least i will have the moral satisfaction that i lived by my code and what i thought was right...
... Or i'll just be plain old dead. Dead dave, Dead.

well... re-reading all that makes me see that it reads as somewhat Meandering and naive... but oh well, i guess thats me in a nutshell.

-Aspiring 'good guy' :P

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Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:09 am
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Chibi-Czar
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Post Re: One War under God - now with 90% more Rapture!
This is me NOT REPLYING to anything AM said.

But I am suggesting that, despite the interesting start to the thread, perhaps it ought to be split/moved to the rant/flame section, lest it serve as a landmine?

Also, for reference, the phrase "Left Behind series" is the fastest way to get laughs in a seminary class.


Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:10 am
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Post Re: One War under God - now with 90% more Rapture!
What about "L. Ron Hubbard"? that's sure to get a bigger chuckle. :P

But yeah, I'll probably just lock this down to avoid old flame wars restarting.

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Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:52 pm
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