not that i care, not being a potter-person, but that first paragraph had the best collection of spoilers EVER. or, you were joking. *shrug*

No, that stuff happened. Plus Tonks and Lupin are now together, and Fleur, the Franch Champion from GoF (#4) marries Ron's brother. Oh, and Ron gets horribly poisoned.

Serves them right for all the underaged drinking in book 6. I mean, seriously... 'butterbeer' was mentioned plenty, but in this book, the teachers are very clearly offering them spiced mead, wine and fire-whiskey filled chocolates.

I wanna go to Hogwarts. Teachers never offered to get Sloshed with ME in MY school....

The legal drinking age in Britain is 16 in resturants, 18 everywhere else. However, it is social acceptable for kids as young as 12 to drink laggers and such. I wonder how many American kids read "butterbeer" and thought it was the wizard equivalent of rootbeer. ^_^

Also, the wizarding community seems to grant the age of consent at 17, meaning nit might very well be legal for wizards to drink at 16, or at the very least it would be seen in the same light as giving a 19 or 20 y/o college student a beer at a party.

But there's liquor EVERYWHERE in this book! I'm surprised any of the students were sober enough to actually learn anything in their sixth year. It just seems a bit excessive/blatant, like "I'm happy/sad/worried/whatever. I know! I'll go to Professor ____ and have a little 'pick me up', then I'll continue my daily activities."

I wonder if the wizarding world has AA. I can think of a couple of the characters that are REALLY gonna need if they keep up this pace.

Lady Senie

Though they never show it too much, Dumbledore was a mean drunk. And Professor Sprout grew the gange that really lifted you off your feet.

You know, they only had butterbeer on holidays and when they went into Hogsmead. In this book, they only got alcohol from one teacher, albeit on three or more occasions, and only then at a party, at a funeral, and after being bewitched by a potion.

In many ways, the wizarding community seems stuck in the nineteenth century, which was apparently the time when they separated themselves from Muggle society.

It is important to the plot of the story to determine if Dumbledore's death was a willing sacrifice, or an unfortunate quirk of circumstance. If he died willinglly, then that speaks strongly to Snape's motivations, as well as how Harry will eventually handle Snape. It is my opinion that Dumbledore's death was unavoidable, but he chose to face it on his own terms rather than on Voldemort's. Here is my argument:

1) While discussing Voldemort with Harry, Dumbledore commented that there were worse things than death. He reitterated this sentiment in his duel with Voldemort inside the Ministry of Magic.

2) Dumbledore had done all he could to defeat Voldemort. After hearing the prophecy from Professor Trelawney, Dumbledore knew that he would be unable to defeat Voldemort. Harry Potter, and only Harry Potter, could finalize Voldemort's complete destruction. Thus Dumbledore didn't try to directly bring down Voldemort. He only sought to enable Harry to emerge victorious from that final confrontation. Dumbledore's death would remove all serious doubts of Snape's loyalty from the Death Eaters, as well as Voldemort himself, allowing Snape to position himself where he would be of most use to Harry, come time to face Voldemort.

3) Voldemort's rebirth had the effect of weakening the protective charm Harry's mother had placed on him. This meant that the Dursley's house offered less protection to Harry than before. Harry, however, had inherited twelve Grimwauld Place from Sirius Black. If you will recall, Dumbledore was the Secret Keeper for the charm placed upon the Order of The Phoenix's headquarters. His death effectively means that Voldemort has no chance of learning it's location, thus providing a safe haven for Harry after he leaves the Dursley's, which I suspect he will do on the day of his sevententh birthday. (Harry's birthday is at the end of July, and Hogwarts lets out at the end of June, meaning Harry will only stay there a month before attending Bill & Fleur's wedding, then retiring to his new house.)

4) Dumbledore's death had a major impact on Malfoy. I expect to see Malfoy on Harry's side of the line before the end of the series.

The big debate right now is if Dumbledor knew about the Unbreakable Vow and knew what was coming.

Knowing that it would be either Draco or Snape finishing me off, I'd rather it was Snape. Draco is just a kid. It would be a double murder to have him do it. I can definitely see Dumbledor willingly accepting his death due to this fact. Something I suspect spurred the argument that Snape and Dumbledor had out in the woods.

The 'pleading' tone of Dumbledor's last words also goes along with this. "You kill me, so the boy doesn't have to" kind of thing.


So, my big question: Is the 'fake' pocket watch
-Real, but cleverly disguised
-Fake, and put there by Dumbledor
-Fake, and put there by Book 7th's plot-focus

did anyone else see the new HP t-shirt on tshirt hell? i liked that one. the newsletter had some amusing feedback, as well.

I'm just curious how Sirius' little brother managed to get the necklace that Dumbledore and Potter went looking for in the first place. And how he found out about them. I doubt if the Big V even told his DE's about his soul surpluses.

heh, Harry Potter Pure Blood Families are more confusing that temporal paradox/mechanics. eheheh. the only thing that annoyed me much was Remus and Tonks. eh--no.

Dear god, thank you! I've been racking my brain trying to figure out who stole the locket! And I'm sure he didn't as Dumbledore told Harry that Voldemort told no one of his horcuxes. We know Lucius Malfoy didn't know the diary was a horcrux, for example.

::shrugs:: Maybe Sirius' brother didn't know it was a horcux. After all, Malfoy didn't know about the one he had and that didn't stop him from going forth into the world to use it to his own ends. Perhaps the brother knew about this one's location (Voldemort seems a bit scattered in his information-giving - that whole 'trust' issue surfacing again), and decided to do something to sorta 'get back' at his master. Maybe he knew Voldemort was gonna kill him soon and wanted some sort of revenge. So he destroyed one of Voldemort's most treasured possessions, without realizing that it was actually a piece of his soul.

Lady Senie

I'm really interested in finding out about Sirius' brother and how he found out about the horcrux. Senie, the note left strongly implies the person who took it both meant to destroy it, and knew what it was. I'm also a bit eager to find how much like his brother Aberforth Dumbledore is. Lots of brother in going to be showing up in this last book... I'm still betting that Harry is a horcrux, and after all the others are destroyed, and something happens to kill Voldemort again, he'll try to posess Harry, but like the time in the Ministry of Magic, he won't be able to withstand Harry's love and it'll kill him. Whether or not Harry will get Voldemort's powers afterwards will be interesting to see. I'm betting he does, and goes on to become Headmaster at Hogwarts eventually. I also think Dumbledore's brother will be the new DADA teacher, not that Harry's going to be going back, really. The NEWTs would interfere with him tracking down the Horcruxes.

Anyone want to place bets on where the Horcruxes are hidden? My guess is that one definately is at his old orphanage, that would be the cup. The snake ranges around with Voldemort, so that one doesn't need a hiding place. The necklace is most likely destroyed. Harry's the finally Horcrux due to Voldemort attempting to use his death to make his final one and the spell backfiring, though I don't think Voldemort realizes that yet (not that he wouldn't kill Harry and just make another Horcrux).

Yes, This has spoilers..like everything else in this thread already.. *smirk*



R.A.B. took the Horcrux... Most people think this is Regulus A. Black, but no middle name was ever given, so it's not for certain.

However, most people in HP discussion groups think that it's not destroyed. Why?

In Book 5 (Order of the Phoenix), while exploring Grimmauld Place, there is the following scene:
Note the reference to the 'heavy locket that none of them could open'. This is believed to be where R(egulus).A.B(lack). stashed the locket he took after leaving the note.
...he was then killed for being a traitor before destroying it.

Ok, I'm just a WEEE bit confused.

R.A.B sure could stand for Regulus Black.. but first with what Kumono comented on.. who's to say that is WAS Regulus in the first place.

Dumbeldore allowing Snape to kill him was something i wasn't expecting as i thought the whole time it was Harry that Malfoy was to kill (supprised me to hell).
I agree with the idea that Harry might just be a Horcrux because of Voldy's mistake and couldn't kill him, but with Harry stating that he's not going back to Hogwarts for his 7th year and gunna go home to where his parents lived (Godric's Hallow i beleive), who's not to say that something might be there where it happened 16 going on 17 years before in the first place?

but to my first comment.. HOW did you guess it was Regulus in the first place??

Two of the three initials fit. As of right now, it's the best guess anyone's got to go on.

Like the man said, "An ancestor of mine maintained that if you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the solution."

It's the only person to my mind that has appropriatly matching initials from the earlier books. Even the folks at the HP Lexicon (http://www.hp-lexicon.org/) say he's the most likely suspect.

Also, I personally think Snape is just an asshole and there was no real conspiracy behind him offing Albus. He was traitor plain and simple and nothing in any of the other books shows a hint at any other redemable factor he could possibly have except his pride, his ego, and his ability to cover his own ass.

Of course, that's just me, and I could be wrong....

Over all I actually thought that the book was extremely un-canon (then again the characters are changing...and its not a bad thing...) and it read almost like a fan fic. I personally enjoyed it. good book really. The best part would be (to me) is that up til the beginning of book 6 dumbledore is pretty much perfect in everyway like....hmmmmm I know theres some good metaphor here, but then he gets that scarred arm and he goes all the way down hill and in the end of the book....he dies. (someone should put a spoiler alert on this post btw).

I want to know everyones thoughts on the potion he drank. what do you think it did? I'm tied between it showed him the things he would hate to see most, or things that happened in his life that he tried to forget.

thoughts?

Book #4, Chp. 33, when Voldemort is addressing his Death Eaters, after Crabbe and Goyle, he reaches a large gap where six Death Eaters should be. According to Voldemort, three are fead, one was Crouch, and one was Karkarov. As for the sixth one, what Voldemort has to say of him is, "One, who I believe has left me forever... he will be killed, of course..." Now, the only Death Eater we know who ran was Regulus Black, who even Sirius and Dumbledore thought was dead. Voldemort, however, says that he will be killed, future tense. I think the second Black son might still be alive. The question is, why did twelve Grimmauld Place let itself be given to Harry then? Of course, he might have been referring to Snape, who had stopped him from getting the Philosopher's Stone in the first book (though he didn't know it was Voldemort inside Quirrell).

I did not remember that particular passage in book 5... Hmm, if Sirius' mother had disowned him, the house would have been in Regulus' posession if his mother died.

As for Snape being a traitor, I think you'll find in book #7 that he's quite eager for Voldemort's death as he killed Snape's love, Lily Evans. Now, I still think he should be offed, but that's just me. He really is just a fucking prick.

i don't know why some people think Snape likes Lily... is it just an excuse to make him a misunderstood good guy? for all that we know Snape and James could've become friends after school and no one knew about it

Actually, I think that the one who ran was Karkoraff, as he was killed in the beginning of the next book. I don't think Regulus is alive because in book 5 Sirius made it clear that Regulus was the hero of the Black family for joining Voldemort and that his death broke his parents' heart. IE it really happened.

As for Snape, I frickin hate that guy. I hope he died horribly for being a sell out on all sides. I think he's just out to preserve his own ass, as he has been doing since day one. In that sense he's no better than Wormtail, and deserves the same, if not a worse fate.

I agree with Tenryu on the Snape and Lily thing. When Harry looked into Snape's pensieve in book 5, he saw James Potter humiliating him as a boy and Snape refusing help from the 'Mudblood' Lily. In book six we find out that Snape's a Mudblood himself, but seems to want to dissociate himself from this as muchas possible (being the half-blood prince and all). I doubt he would have fallen for Lily, as Slughorn seems the only one obsessed with her in book 6.

But Snape and James couldn't have been friends. In book 3 Sirius makes it perfectly clear that he and his best friend/inseparable partner in crime James never dropped their grudge against Snape, not even after all that happened after they left school. Sirius was carrying on the grudge in James' stead.

I think that the potion Dumbledore drank might have been showing him that very worst possible outcome of the war against Voldemort. Something very dementor-esque, as they've been on his side since book 4. That's my guess, Doyle.

Oh, and this thread DEFINITELY needs a spoiler alert.

Lady Senie

the real question is why Dumbledore trusts Snape no matter what...

i have no doubt that Snape had to kill Dumbledore because Dumbledore would not want
Draco being hurt by Voldermort for not doing the task given to him...
if Snape didn't killing him then he and Draco would both end up dying...
thus there is a possibilty that Snape will still be playing a double agent role the only question is why?

KREACHER HAS THE HORCRUX! I was thinking of the fact that they threw away most of the dark magic stuff in the Black Manor and how Harry was going to have to try and track down what happened to it, when I remembered the fact that Rowling went through great pains to mention the fact that Kreacher kwpt stealing small things that they had thrown out and stashing them in his "nest" under the boiler. Remember when Dumbledore said that Kreacher was what wizards made him and that Harry should be kind to him? Generally speaking, writers are lazy and don't mention something unless it has some impact on the story. Rowling took the time and effort to make it clear that if it were small and thrown out, Kreacher kept it and that Harry should be nice to Kreacher, then put Kreacher in Harry's service when Harry already had a house-elf frfiend to do elven stuff for him in Dobby.

Also, I'd like to question the Canadian and British members of the board about the books. I was wondering if there were any differences between the British, Canadian and American versions of the book. I've noticed that in the books here in the US, all the measurements are in SAE. When they talk about distance, it's in inches, feet, yards, and miles, then even once used the fairly archaic term hands (of course they were talking about a horse). When they talk about weight, it's in ounces and pounds, possibly even stones. Is this the same in your versions, or do you guys get centimeters, meters, and kilometer for length and distance, and grams and kilograms for weight? If there is a difference, that means it was put in there for editing. If there's no difference, then apparently wizards never went metric.

As for Snape, the reason I think he had a thing for Lily comes from several pieces of circumstansial evidence. First, when people question why Dumbledore trusts Snape, he replies that Snape told him something that made Dumbledore honestly believe he was reformed. As has been shown in the series, Dumbledore holds love as the most powerful force in the world, so love figuring into Snape's reform proving to Dumbledore beyond a shadow of a doubt that he's changed sides would make sense. Then there is the fact that it was Snape who overheard the prophecy being told to Dumbledore. The prophecy was given slightly before Harry was born, meaning Snape had no idea who would be targeted when he told the information, and would lead to him feeling guilty for Lily's death. Snape came to work for Dumbledor just before the Potters went into hiding. In book #3 it is revealed that the Potters knew Voldemort was after them, and since we know Snape was a double agent, it would figure he told Dumbledore about who voldemort was after. We know when Snape reformed, as we know how long Snape has been a teacher at Hogwarts (in book five, when Harry is 15, Snape says he has been teaching at Hogwarts for fourteen years). The evidence in the penseive is actually what made me think Snape loved Lily in the first place. Snape was half-blood and hated his muggle father because he abused his mother (mudblood=muggle born=Hermione, half-blood=half wizard and half muggle descent=Harry, pure-blood=all wizard descent=Ron). That's why Snape didn't like muggles. However, Snape is passionate about potions and we know Lily was excellent at potions herself. It also appears that Lily was the only one to stick up for Snape, the isolated and emotionally scarred child that he was. Snape was embarrased about being humiliated in front of someone he had a crush on, and thus did what came natural to him and lashed out in an attempt to isolate himself. But that's just my opinion.

And I still think Snape should die a horrible death.