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Chibi-Czar
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It wasn't a scientific experiment- though I know how I would run one now- it was simply a "test" case to prove to the school that D&D doesn't turn people into demoniacs. It's mainly to get the rule-against moved at least out of the "occult" section, and perhaps get it reworded to allow it in general, at least with official approval (time issues, grades, etc.)

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Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:33 pm
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Chibi-Czar
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What school are you attending, by the way?

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Thu Mar 10, 2005 6:55 pm
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Chibi-Czar
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alas, he claims to have played before:

".. have played D&D a few times and spent dozens of hours talking with players and Dungeon Masters (DMs). Admittedly, my first hand experienced with D&D is from the 1970's-80's, but I would think it still counts for something. Has the game changed that much?..."


my immediate answer would be yes. it has ^^

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Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:08 pm
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I'm doubting he has. Seriously. He thinks it leads to demon possession and witch craft.

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Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:18 pm
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Chibi-Czar
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Well, *he's* been possesed. Isn't it obvious?

:P

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Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:39 pm
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Chibi-Czar
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S1L3NT_C0Y0T3 wrote:
What school are you attending, by the way?


Two caveats.
1. I personally attend the graduate-level theological seminary attached to the school, and as such am allowed a great deal more freedom than the undergraduates; I can booze and game all I like.

2. The rule is for a Bible college, added in the 80's, and not changed because nobody ever really reviewed it until I pointed it out last year.

I attend Briercrest Seminary in Caronport, Saskatchewan. Please, don't anybody write them letters or anything, because that would be highly counterproductive.

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Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:12 pm
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Chibi-Czar
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Tozetre wrote:
Please, don't anybody write them letters or anything, because that would be highly counterproductive.


Naw, hell, if anything, I'd want to know if they had any correspondence distance-learning courses of a quality enough, as judged by Tozetre, to take for purely general/personal interest type reasons.

I know my education was... lacking, but I don't exactly have 4 years of my life free to set aside to remediate such.

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Thu Mar 10, 2005 11:44 pm
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Chibi-Czar
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Actually, they did just start a Lit program- and while in its first year it's pretty lame, they do have Chuck Kiem, who did his PhD on Paradise Lost, and so offers a very great deal of insight. Most of their really useful courses are focused on theology, but they have a goodly number of general-education courses, all of which are accredited and transfer to the local provincial (nalogous to state) universities.

From my educational experience, classroom education's quality is dictated by the prof, but distance-ed depends slightly more on personal interest. I'll post the link to the school here-
http://www.briercrest.ca
but I can probably offer some more useful insights into which courses to look at if you tell me what kind of thing you're interested in. Selection by prof is still the best way to go, but subject and current level of expertise are vital elements as well. Post here or PM and I'd be happy to help out.

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Fri Mar 11, 2005 12:18 am
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Chibi-Czar
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It's not just the bible colleges, Toze - and I don't think that rebuttal will play in Tel Aviv.

Just received from an almost over-the-hill friend: "Not in my IDF, chaverim"

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Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:09 am
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Chibi-Czar
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Hah.
That IDF's problem is with the psychology- which _I_ don't need to defend, since over a dozen major psychological research projects have been done over a period of a decade in several major nations.

Also their stock photo is of LARPers. This actually sounds a lot like America 18 years ago- misinformation, poorly managed assumptions, and outright lies.

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Fri Mar 11, 2005 2:42 pm
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Yeah, well, we know better... I just relayed the link for its peculiar synchronicity.

Of course, they're missing a bet with that policy. Every outfit should have somebody who comes up with the crazy plans and the goofy ideas, just to keep everybody else thinking. Whether the CO uses it, modifies it, or rejects it, the dialectic alone can strengthen his operational planning. (E.g, "That's absolutely boneheaded, Corporal! But... ya know, that reminds me of something I ran across in OCS...")

And what better candidate for Guru of Goofy Ideas than a gamer?

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Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:06 pm
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Chibi-Czar
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Bean.

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"Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step to true panic."
--Freefall

A file that big?
It might be very useful.
But now it is gone.
-- David J. Liszewski


Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:22 pm
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Chibi-Czar
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Bean was Ender's SWAT honcho/SEAL Team leader. He got the jobs that called for small units to produce big results (from Ender's Game - I've missed a few of the sequels, and I wish Scott Card would've done some more with "The Way West"). Bean's close to what I'm talking about, and there's a lot of overlap, but there's a little bit of a different mindset between, "Who Dares, Wins" and "This worked great when we took on that army of Orcs at Jake's place..."

[edit] BTW-type Trivia: Did you know that Ender's Game was on the "Commandant's Recommended Reading List" for the entire U. S. Marine Corps? I laughed like hell - I'd already read it, you see...[/edit]

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"Charlie was a policeman, Nick-san. If you steal, you disgrace him. And me. And yourself..."

"Tough times don't last. Tough people do."

"You have the rest of your life to solve your problems. How long you live depends on how well you do it."

Token Reactionary S.O.B.


Fri Mar 11, 2005 3:40 pm
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Julzz wrote:
Um yes. I was under the impression that magic was direct result of multiple gods. Then again, I think this guy would find that equally abhorrent. There?s just no pleasing some people.


actually, he was referring to the fact that the vast majority of "magick-endorsing" religions (for lack of a better term) do not teach bending the forces of the universe to one's own will, as is described, but rather ritual/evocation in the form of prayer to one's deity for a desired effect. you raise, you send it up, and your deity does it.
While there ARE some people who do the 'direct-effect' philosophy, this is less commonly a religious practce per se. And bear in mind that the extremist fundamentalists love any chance they can get to lump together the 'sinister forces' working to destroy <insert moralistic bullshit here>

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Fri Mar 11, 2005 9:33 pm
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Actually, that's how it works with practitioners who believe their power comes from a deity. In D&D, divine casters request a change and the deity/deific force makes the change either through them or directly.

Practitioners who don't believe their power comes from a deity/deific force believe there are magical energies or fabrics which they can directly manipulate to bring about an effect. In D&D, arcane casters do this directly and usually without the assistance or intervention of a deity.

Both of these are essentially viable viewpoints for the Magic World View as described.

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Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:31 pm
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Chibi-Czar
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Spike, not Julzz wrote:
And bear in mind that the extremist fundamentalists love any chance they can get to lump together the 'sinister forces' working to destroy <insert moralistic bullshit here>


*cheers on the sinister working to destroy moralistic bullshit*

Sorry, that just caught my eye.

*waves sinister forces flag*

:P

Carry on.


Daemon wrote:
B, just so you know, you might want to correct that attribution - Spike said that, not Julzz. :P


I blame the forces of good.

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Last edited by -B- on Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:40 pm
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B, just so you know, you might want to correct that attribution - Spike said that, not Julzz. :P

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Fri Mar 11, 2005 10:43 pm
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just to clarify, i was speaking of real-life practitioners, not in-game systems. it's difficult to discuss them seperately when the source we're debating tries so VERY HARD to make them one and the same @_@

carry on.

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Sat Mar 12, 2005 4:58 pm
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I know that, but the man clearly derives the MWV from the games. He even claims the games teach the MWV to be an accurate view of the real world. This is why we take it all in context of the games.

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Sat Mar 12, 2005 5:20 pm
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Chibi-Czar
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Yeah, the problem with these guys is that, after wailing that plyers f thegames can't distinguish between fantasy and reality, they then don't distinguish between explicitly fictional text like a GAME book, and something with more substantial weight, like the Corpus Hermeticum.

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Sat Mar 12, 2005 6:01 pm
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