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Chibi-Czar
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Hey guys, Fiss... Do you think you'd be interested in the Mission Statement of my new Myspace Group?

I know Fiss is pretty damn close to it with OMOI and his work... why not take it one step further?

Read here: http://groups.myspace.com/texasanimeteam

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Mon Jan 22, 2007 7:48 pm
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Chibi-Czar
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Shit, you live in Texas? I'm thinking of moving out there at some point.

Also, imagination is spelled with one m.

It's a hell of a long shot, and you'll need to do it outside your Real Jobs, but what the hell, it's how GAINAX got started; Otaku No Video is a tongue-in-cheek documentary, after all.

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Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:27 pm
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I'm not just started, I've BEEN started. Zeropoint hasn't just been a 'shrug' hobby. I've got an OST disk one done (Asside from finding a harp sample and doing a tweak to one song.) and I've started on OST disk 2.

I've got five complete episode scripts, and I've been stuck on the climactic 'First OVA' episode six since summer.

Incidently, if you come to Texas, go for Austin. Growing city, plus I'm there. (And you could probably give me a real job instead of Taco Bell... I think I perpetually smell like Taco at this point...)

EDIT: Go ahead and sign up to Myspace and join the group. I need some members to start attracting others.

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Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:02 pm
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I'd personally start hitting up art schools for animation tallent. You'll need at least 3 to 5 key-frame artists even before you start looking at an actual studio to make the animation itself. :|

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Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:31 pm
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You need a lot of artists, at least some talented. You need people who can fund projects, just with basic supplies, room, etc. You need musicians, you need directors, writers, editors.

you need, uh... hmm.
*thinks*
wow. Being chair of an anime festival sorta made me an expert on fan efforts of things.

Basically, you need otaku. 1.5 million will give you a decent crowd, but you'd have better odds in Dallas or Houston. I won't give you a step-by-step on how to do it, but the general idea is that you need people with a rare combination of talent, obsession, vision, just enough smarts to see the advantages and just enough dumb to not realize how scary such an undertaking is. You need a leader with great force of personality and ability to put things together. And you need opportunity.

So Texas is an excellent place to be- more opportunity there than anywhere else, I figure. Finding the opportunity's going to be a matter of luck, by which I mean preparation, and getting the staff will be a matter of hard work.

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Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:19 pm
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Tozetre wrote:
You need a lot of artists, at least some talented. You need people who can fund projects, just with basic supplies, room, etc. You need musicians, you need directors, writers, editors.


Musician: Check. (ME!) In case you missed it, OST 1. :twisted:
Writer: Check for the time being. (ME! As long as someone can backcheck it and smack it around like Vicil did. We worked up some good shit.)
Director: Uncheck... We had Vicil... he dissappeared.


Quote:
you need, uh... hmm.
*thinks*
wow. Being chair of an anime festival sorta made me an expert on fan efforts of things.

Basically, you need otaku. 1.5 million will give you a decent crowd, but you'd have better odds in Dallas or Houston. I won't give you a step-by-step on how to do it, but the general idea is that you need people with a rare combination of talent, obsession, vision, just enough smarts to see the advantages and just enough dumb to not realize how scary such an undertaking is. You need a leader with great force of personality and ability to put things together. And you need opportunity.

So Texas is an excellent place to be- more opportunity there than anywhere else, I figure. Finding the opportunity's going to be a matter of luck, by which I mean preparation, and getting the staff will be a matter of hard work.


Preparation in a field I only got interested out of high-school in is something I'm not exactly suited for. I have been able to put out music and I have garnered "TOTALLY AWESOME" from my loose group of internet jockies. Especially some guys in Clan DK. DKYahoo actually said he burned some of them to disk for his car.
(Or was it DKYeehaw?)


I gathered... three fans to the Zeropoint work. Vicil, Nichaelous Kracken (I never remember that nightmare name's spelling. He goes by an easier to remember Kerrus on SBs.), and ShadowTek.

I think it would be more if people had something to sink their teeth into. I have what amounts to an archive of production notes, some scripts, and a soundtrack. But no actual production, and barely any character design sketches.

Toze, I couldn't con you into turning the scripts into something of a prose format, could I? (And by con, I of course mean tack you on the team as the experienced and educated gentalmen with the deadly Argument Attack technique...)

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Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:55 pm
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One thing you may want to look into is a local film-making grant. Every major city has at least a few bucks in the coffers to help out budding young artists.

http://www.lib.msu.edu/harris23/grants/3film.htm

and

http://humanitiestexas.org/grants.htm

and

http://www.filmfestivaltoday.com/grants.asp

are found easily enough on Google, but in meatspace, you can also check out your local Art Schools for the dual benifit of funding and headhunting for your new crew.

While you've proven yourself an adept musician, you have to decide exactly how much of yourself you're going to put into this project before it becomes a group activity. If you're chalking yourself in as two or three things, you may miss out on another artist's abilities while you find yourself strained to keep up so many posts.

Another thing you NEED to consider is exactly what kind of Anime-esque product you want to create. Gainax took cheesy, otaku and fanservice and made it an artform. Ghibili took all the better parts of war, history and character and made them work so seamlessly that you can tell time with their movies and short-films. Studio Bones has a distinctive art style that was refreshing...but is now copied and overused IMHO. You can NOT just be a "North American Anime Studio." You have to break into the scene with ***SOMETHING*** all your own, or you ***WILL*** be tossed aside in the ocean of mediocre anime, even if you reach your target audience.

For the sake of constructive critique, I have to tell you...the world does not need any more "uber power, epic space-opera, overkill explosions" anime. If you make an anime based on this, I fear the worst. The world doesn't need it because it's too simple and nearly every studio has done something like it. This doesn't mean you can't use any of those elements that I know you enjoy so much...and really...most anime fans enjoy too. But if you're going to go through all this effort just to make Zero Point or whatever your first project is going to be a simple amalgamation of your favorite elements...you will fail even if just by limiting yourself so completely off the start. You need to sell a "_________________ Uber Powered Spaceopera", where the mecha, nuclear explosions, amazing powers and the like are an addition to what you're actually selling. You need to sell something...amazing. Or at least damn close if you want to pull off an entry-level-win to keep the ball going.

Before you even put text to script, you need to find the core mechanic of this new studio of yours....and you need to brainstorm. A lot. Having a list of ten or twenty fans will not cut it. You need people with vision who want to help. Like Tozetre said: Otaku with a rare combination of talent, obsession, vision with just the perfect level of brains in the matter. Start collecting those people before you do anything else....but having the answers to "where's the money going to come from?" and "how long will this take?" and "what will my duties be?" will help you collect those people.

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Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:53 pm
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Fiss is correct about collecting people before anything else, and more correct about not doing more than one thing- well, I mean, you may have to, but only do it if you're an expert.

I disagree that the world doesn't need more space opera, because space opera is a fantastic basis for a good story- but he's right that you need something more than cool stuff. You need something that will reach inside someone's heart and touch it in ways that most stuff doesn't. And then you'll need to do it again. That means you'll need rare talent; again, people.

I'd be interested in joining, but there's three barriers.
1) I've got no time. School, work, and Otafest stuff keeps me busy.
2) I live too far away. This kind of project requires people who are, if not roomates, at least within Chinese For Lunch of each other.
3) It'll be a minimum of two years before either of those first two go away. If they do, I suspect I might find a project to invest time, skill, and money in- but not just yet.

If I move to Texas, maybe I'll help. But I wouldn't bank on it. Sorry. I'd love to, but I've just got too many commitments as it is. I mean, if I started a similar project up here, I'd have me, Fiss... one animator... Yeah. Bigger city's needed. Still, keep looking, you may find some folks.

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Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:13 am
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*Nod nod.*

What I've been working on in my concept after the initial Vicil powered Third Degree breakdown back when I got started... Is taking the Tokien-esque approach. Building the universe and inserting the story. I'm not going totally that rout, but I did a large chunk of it.

In a nutshell, I want to use the story to examine the human 'Concept of Absolute Power' and its philosophical impact.

Of the points I want to explore asside from the direct challenges that result in the uber fights... I want to explore the other aspects that could be faced.

Responsibility of those with power.
Political manuevers.
Conspiracies.
Self Confidence.

Something of a "I have all this power for who knows what reason, everybody wants a piece of me or it, I could blow them all away instantly, but that would be wrong... what the f*ck do I do now?"

But at the same time, I can't stand overdone angst, as it goes against the very fiber of my being. So I want to touch the subjects, while keeping it lighthearted, often silly, and sometimes just plain 'Wanktacular' when characters are doing the uber-fighting. Throw in some three way romantic tension.


But that's particulars of a story that spans a combined multi-arc story of which I'm only close to finished fleshing out the introduction arc for the main protagonists and the early antagonist.

My question to you guys... have you even read the scripts? I posted them in creative works at some point... I don't think I posted four or five though. I can link the final scripts to you though if you wish...

As a note to myself: Review this post and write a mission statement/treatment.

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Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:35 am
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I'll take another look at the scripts. Honestly haven't had much of a chance too yet. However, the story itself, the issues it looks at, and the themes and realities of it are not necessarily the focus in this thread. One person can publish a book with a bit of legwork and luck...but an anime studio is not publishing a book.

Q: Have you seen Daicon V?
Q: How long do you plan each portion of ZP to be in real time video?
Q: Do you have any other ideas for smaller projects to show your mettle?
Q: What is the circumference of a Moose?

You should focus on some projects that are half Trailer, 1/4 Demo Reel, 1/4 Shortstory. If you could condense the world of Texas Anime into 10 minutes, what would you see?

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Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:11 pm
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Christopher Fiss wrote:

Q: Have you seen Daicon V?

No.

Quote:
Q: How long do you plan each portion of ZP to be in real time video?

Each episode that is currently written SHOULD fit in a 26 minute block.

Quote:
Q: Do you have any other ideas for smaller projects to show your mettle?

Not really. I've been working on THIS for three years.

Quote:
Q: What is the circumference of a Moose?

It's Michael Palem with his face in a pie times Douglas Adams, squared.

Quote:
You should focus on some projects that are half Trailer, 1/4 Demo Reel, 1/4 Shortstory. If you could condense the world of Texas Anime into 10 minutes, what would you see?


A short eh? Sidestory... hmm... Maybe a oneshot... I'll look into it.

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Wed Jan 24, 2007 12:54 am
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Unfortunately, my PC is out of commission at the moment, or I'd be able to send you the file. However, thanks to the wonderfulness of the Intrawebs and Youtube:

Daicon is how Gainax got started

A bunch of otaku got together, made a short little animation, and displayed it at a Scifi con in Osaka in 1981. It was such a hit that the subsequent years were met with bigger and better animation and amazing public response. The ultimate awesomeness of their Daicon work was the incredibly bad-assed "Twilight" music video...which was basically the first AMV ever made (or at least the first well known one). Now, I'm not saying you should copy this, nor will it bring you instant awesomeness and world-wide recognition, but take a look at the skill progression and the style.

If you want Zero Point to be your masterpiece, don't start making it just yet. Create the universe first. That's why I want to see a 10-minute or so short that will sell your world as being made of awesomeness. :)

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Wed Jan 24, 2007 4:48 pm
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Christopher Fiss wrote:
If you want Zero Point to be your masterpiece, don't start making it just yet. Create the universe first. That's why I want to see a 10-minute or so short that will sell your world as being made of awesomeness. :)


One appropriate analogy may be, eg., the first chapters of Omoi, compared to the last. Both good, but the skill progression is evident.

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Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:16 pm
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Start off with two minutes, not ten, and shop it around to every con out there. That's why you need one guy who can afford to handle resources out of his own pocket, or a combination of people who can share the load. You want to rent tables, spend almost every weekend traveling, etc.

Ideally, someone with the spare time and cash to invest in saleable items and a U-haul or van rental could spend the summer selling stuff at cons, and bring your first animation as a free gift or as a TV display to attract customers- or you could convince a shop that's going around anyway to bring one of your team along as an employee, or the group could make a compilation CD with the full video, plus making-of, extras, intros, etc., sell it for a dollar or two apiece and split the profits with the "investor." If you keep producing more stuff, in subsequent years you could sell more stuff.

I mean, as long as you have the people, the plans come together fairly easy.

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Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:42 am
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I could look into Dave... I know he Cons around all summer long. Maybe if I can convince him to carry something around. I've had some email convo's with him, and I know he likes my work in the video and music department... maybe I can push there.
I just need to figure out how to go about it within' my limits.

I can't animate worth a crap... but I can compile the sequences well enough for AMVs. I can write music, and I've got my scripts. But hardly anyone wants to look at scripts.

Unless people like script-reading sessions at cons. :?

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Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:52 am
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admiraltigerclaw wrote:
Unless people like script-reading sessions at cons. :?


For that in particular, you might want to see if there's any kind of "Writers Group" or "Writers Circle" in your area, maybe at a school or bookstore, or somewhere. The kind of thing where misc. amateur writers meet up to share their work and encouragement, constructive criticism, etc.

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Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:20 am
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And this comes back to one of the bigger issues on MY plate. Time/Money.

I can't afford to do very much of anything, and I can't afford to take any time off from work to do anything major.

As it stands, I don't even make cost of living here. Remember for a second that I'm entry level position in a FAST FOOD place. The amount of time I spend at work barely pays for my car, it's inssurance, and the various food/gas/random expenses of day to day life... And that's with barely using my vehicle beyond driving to work, and home from work. And I still live in my parent's house... which in itself, is in a highly unstable financial state. :evil: (So every time I sit down for hours on end in front of my computer, I can expect someone to chew me out because "It's not bringing any money into this house!" )

So one thing I've been looking into, is trying to make a job out of something I like, and I'm good at: My music. I'm wiating on a bank card to come in for that one. Then it's an attempt at CDfuse.com. I'll keep you informed on that one.

I have pressing issues to deal with... but as they say: "Keep on truckin'!"

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Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:02 am
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You misunderstand me.

1) Get MORE PEOPLE. You need a half-dozen people who are both talented, obsessed, and willing to sacrifice their personal lives. If you don't have that, you can't do it.
2) Go to school. Get a degree in something you like to do, like music. With a degree you will be able to make money at something that's not difficult for you to enjoy, and that will give you the resources you need to pursue this.
3) Do NOT assume that you are production-level talented at more than one thing. Do NOT assume that talent means skill, no matter what anime has told you. Production-level "good" only arrives after years of practice, and there is no upper limit. See (1); you need a half-dozen people so that you have a genius to do music, one to do writing, one to do character design, some to do animation, one to handle production, etc.

If it's just you, don't stop- but don't start. Keep practicing. Get better and better. But don't imagine that you can do it all yourself, because you can't. You need other people. Get them together, people who are willing to work on the idea for the love of the game, not the love of the particular project you're thinking of pushing, and then work on a product. And be aware that that product will be far different than anything you ever came up with yourself.

Don't ever expect to see the ATC saga on the screen. But if you can get a team together, you can hope to see something ten times better.

(not saying it sucks, man. Just saying the nature of things is that more heads means more quality)

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Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:21 am
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This is sadly true. The "personal story to screen" format happens so rarely, and usually from a writer's standpoint before anything in multimedia simply because of the effort required and the uncertanty of investors.


IE, here's the easy sell:

"Hey, I want you to spend 100 million dollars on a reliatively new director to create Lord of the Rings, which has millions of rabid fans world wide and would create a metric butt-load of cash for you even if it flops due to all the toys and shit you can hock"

Here's what you, me, or any 'fan-fic origin author' has to offer:

"Hey, I want you to spend 10 million dollars on realizing my dream. I know you don't know who I am, and you look at my resume and see I'm a (generic job worker) but you see I have this really friggin awesome story and I know lots of people would love it!"

What you NEED to get to, before being able to realistically do your 'pet project' is something like this:

"Hey there, Mr Investor Man, you asked me what I had handy since a bunch of people are now fans of my work and want to give us their money and/or first-born children. Well, if you want I have this awesome idea that I've been refining for years and I feel we could just now pull it off and amaze everyone. I'll have you the scripts by Monday to OK."

Fame/Money/Tallent/etc = Freedom to do what you want. You can see the progression relies almost completely on content or precieved content. LotR IS content. It's Iconic. Shit, Star Wars = Instant Content. We could all win lotteries and invest in penny stocks that skyrocket for the rest of our lives and never get to the amount of cash that fucking Episode 1 2 and 3 made for Lucas, even though those movies were complete dogshit. 300 is Content, but even then...do you think it would have been made before Sin City? And S.City had the backing of 3 huge names in the biz.

How many animes would have fallen by the wayside until they had Yoko Kanno at the helm of music? Or a Manga to back them? Or a Video Game in rare cases.

Once you prove you can deliver content that sells, investors and studios won't be so nervous around you, and will start to take chances on you.

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Thu Jan 25, 2007 1:27 pm
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Busting your balls for a year or so to really hardcore learn all the ins and outs of flash animation may also be an option - different feel, but from what I've heard, quite a bit cheaper than the traditional route; at the very least, would give a pile of experience with the sheer grindwork of it. Plus, there's a couple small team flash animation stuff that *has* been pretty successful, eg http://www.homestarrunner.com and http://spacetree.com/episodes.html etc.

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Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:33 pm
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Actually, I'm very familliar with flash. I did some flash work items at one point that while not exactly Strongbad emails, weren't just worthless ball bouncing animations. Unfortunately, the thing I had been working hard on is sealed away on a hard drive who's control board is worthless, even though the platters are functional and it spins up just fine. I know all about the grind work there.

One thing I am checking, is revisiting some of my contacts. Phlim2 is a hot one as he's firing into a fandub project and has a small staff of talented individuals which wouold be a good mana pool to tap.

A FANDUB project... I mean, if that doesn't scream "I want to do MORE!" I don't know what does.

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Thu Jan 25, 2007 6:23 pm
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Eh, thanks for mangling my name. I've thinned it out to be easier on the eyes.

Anyhow, i've joined up your group, though it'll take seven days before I can comment at all. I haven't been very active round these parts, being caught up in school and writing and stuff, but I am around. One thing you're going to have to deal with, is the inevitable want of the production team to change the story to fit them. i've seen it happen, had it happen to me time and again. eventually what I had was a little bastard child not even worthy of associating with my original work. Gotta keep your vision proper. Sure, you can concede points here and there, but the core idea needs to remain. Thought I will admit, some scenes may need to be restructured to work within the animation. or maybe not. this is just my experience of it.

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Thu Feb 01, 2007 2:41 am
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Well, to update this board on the goings on. In the last mont, I've registered a business officially, gotten my bank account set up, done my homework on business taxes (Via ask and understand from those who've done it around me.), gotten a domain name, got a CDfuse account (still pending), purchased a $432 prgram so I can legally write and sell my music, got a cafe press store set up today... done some logo art, did cover art for my first disk release today... and set the disk up.

See products here.
http://www.cafepress.com/71123013

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Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:18 pm
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Yo', ATC, if you need hosting space, Studioshinnyo uses less than 3% of it's monthly allowances. Let me know if you....or anyone....needs hosting space. That's one expense you might not need to worry about. The offer is tabled.

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Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:19 am
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Thanks, but shadowtek beat you to it long ago.
( http://www.shadowtek.net )
If he can run THAT, and still be able to handle a buttload of traffic he does...

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Thu Mar 08, 2007 8:42 am
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